Mineralized Soil - Options

Nutrients, fertilization, substrates etc
Tyger
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:07 pm
Real Name: Michael
Location: Annapolis, MD

Mineralized Soil - Options

Post by Tyger »

Greetings,

I am considering setting-up an aquarium with mineralized soil based on the work GWAPA (Sean Murphy as reported by Kris Weinhold and Aaron Talbot), Peter Hiscock, and Diana Walstad. In thinking about the process, I was wondering a couple of things:
  • What's New - Although I have done a little research on variations or options including oven heating to evaporate and sifting and worm casting, I was wondering whether there are any critical updates or improvements in the process (heating and sifting aside as I will do these things).
  • CO2 Supplement - I am about to finish out a pressurized system I can use to supplement several tanks. According to Walstad, I am looking at a faster depletion of soil. I was wondering what our members collective experience has been with this combination (i.e., CO2 Supplement w/Mineralized Soil).
  • CaribSea Eco-Complete - As I have an abundance of eco-complete, I was wondering about using it to cap the soil rather than gravel or sand. Any thoughts?
  • Dolomite & Muriate Potash - As I understand it, Dolomite will provide calcium and magnesium and potash will provide potassium though some supplementation of potassium will be necessary. Again, I was wondering what our members experience has found. How long will each last relative to the soil? In addition, I was wondering whether crushing-up mineralized rock to add into the domolite and muriated potash - overkill? dolomite = mineralized?
Okay, I think that does it for now... thanks, in advance, for taking a moment to share your wisdom?

~Tyger (Michael)~
~Tyger (Michael)~
Annapolis, MD
User avatar
Judi
Posts: 812
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:48 pm
Real Name: Judi Hammett
Location: Catonsville, Maryland

Post by Judi »

I don't know how much wisdom I have, since I haven't gotten around to using the mineralized soil I made, but I'll take a stab at answering your questions:

Are you talking about baking the soil in the oven? I don't believe that is recommended, because that would kill the aerobic bacteria you need to break down the organics in the soil.

Many people use pressurized co2 with mineralized tanks. Even if it does deplete the soil faster I wouldn't be inclined to worry about it; people run these tanks for years.

I've heard of using Eco-Complete as a cap. I think it would work fine.

I don't know about adding the crushed mineralized rock. Interesting idea.
JSnyder
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:09 pm

Re: Mineralized Soil - Options

Post by JSnyder »

Tyger wrote: I was wondering a couple of things:
  • What's New - Although I have done a little research on variations or options including oven heating to evaporate and sifting and worm casting, I was wondering whether there are any critical updates or improvements in the process (heating and sifting aside as I will do these things).
  • CO2 Supplement - I am about to finish out a pressurized system I can use to supplement several tanks. According to Walstad, I am looking at a faster depletion of soil. I was wondering what our members collective experience has been with this combination (i.e., CO2 Supplement w/Mineralized Soil).
  • CaribSea Eco-Complete - As I have an abundance of eco-complete, I was wondering about using it to cap the soil rather than gravel or sand. Any thoughts?
  • Dolomite & Muriate Potash - As I understand it, Dolomite will provide calcium and magnesium and potash will provide potassium though some supplementation of potassium will be necessary. Again, I was wondering what our members experience has found. How long will each last relative to the soil? In addition, I was wondering whether crushing-up mineralized rock to add into the domolite and muriated potash - overkill? dolomite = mineralized?
Okay, I think that does it for now... thanks, in advance, for taking a moment to share your wisdom?

~Tyger (Michael)~
Improvements- I don't believe that there have been any improvements or significant modifications to the process, it works extremely well if the guide is followed closely.

co2 supplementation- yes it is true that co2 makes the plants grow faster and therefore causes them to use up nutrients in the substrate faster. However I can say from personal experience, that mineralized soil is by far the richest and longest lasting substrate (nutrient wise) when compared to any commercial substrate offerings. That being said, all substrates will reduce and eventually deplete in nutrients over time. In my 40br with mineralized soil high light, co2 it was about 8 months before I started dosing and even then it was just light dosing.

Eco-complete - You can use anything to cap the mineralized soil (3m Colorquartz, Eco Complete, Aquasoil, Flourite, any type of sand) basically your choice of capping material comes down to cost, availability, and aesthetic. Eco Complete would be a good choice.

Dolomite & Potash - The dolomite is to prevent the soil from becoming to acidic in addition to the Ca and Mg(not an issue in the first place unless your water is extremely soft) You are correct that potassium is depleted first in mineralized soil, and will have to be dosed first. You wont have to worry about that for a long time (3-6mo), and when you do, it will be in small amounts.

Two tips, I wasn't able to keep shrimps of any kind for 6 months or so, I believe this was due to the potash, not sure on that one.
Second, make sure you wet/dry enough times, if you don't there will still be un-mineralized organics in the soil that that will break down and cause the buildup and release of gas in the substrate.
There are members way more qualified to answer your questions then me including Sean who actually came up with the method after studying wetland soils.
Jon Snyder
User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3647
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Woodstock, MD

Post by Aaron »

Everyone answered your questions well so far. I concur with Judi that you don't want to bake the soil or heat it (that's something Tom Barr has tried preaching) as it will destroy the very bacteria you are trying to foster.

It's warm enough outside now that the process shouldn't take more than 3-4 weeks for the soil to be fully mineralized provided you stay on top of the wet / dry cycle.
User avatar
SCMurphy
Site Admin
Posts: 2104
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:40 pm
Real Name: Sean
Location: Maryland United States

Post by SCMurphy »

I might have a $4.99 a bag substitute for the mineralization process and clay addition. I just have to push it through a test or two.
"したくさ" Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

If you've got bait, I've got wasabi!

I wish I could be like Mr. Sarcastic when I grow up! ;)
fjf888
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:40 pm

Post by fjf888 »

Now that I would be interested in.

From what I understand 3M doesn't make that sand anymore. Is there a close substitute? If there is a substitute is it available locally.
Fred
User avatar
Aaron
Posts: 3647
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Woodstock, MD

Post by Aaron »

fjf888 wrote:Now that I would be interested in.

From what I understand 3M doesn't make that sand anymore. Is there a close substitute? If there is a substitute is it available locally.
http://www.spectraquartz.com/

No one in the club has tested it yet to my knowledge, but it should be pretty similar.
User avatar
Cristy Keister
Posts: 2215
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:52 am
Location: MD

Post by Cristy Keister »

Aaron wrote: http://www.spectraquartz.com/

No one in the club has tested it yet to my knowledge, but it should be pretty similar.
Is it the floor cover or the pool plaster? :lol:
ingg
Posts: 2418
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:29 am

Post by ingg »

Probably both.

They'll sell the quarts as a raw material filler for mixes, the finished mix is used both for commercial floor coverings and for pool linings.

We saw the different grades of sand because they are used to make different textures/effects.
Dave
User avatar
Jim Miller
Posts: 940
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Parkton, MD
Contact:

Post by Jim Miller »

I've been doing some rearranging and the GWAPA belem has gone nuts in my MTS which was done "by the book." Roots were waaaay down deep actually longer than the sprig of grass poking up. I couldn't believe how much of the stuff I ripped out.

I knew I was taking a chance with all the plants I've purchased that some would turn out to be not what I want. That's one thing I've looked forward to: trying lots of different stuff to see what I really like.

Belem just went crazy and stitched the whole tank surface.

Now the stauro has open field running.

Thanks to Sean and Aaron for the MTS guides!

Jim
Post Reply

Sponsors