H202

[150EH]

I tried adding Hydrogen Peroxide to my 10 gallon after watching a YouTube video of a guy treating Cyanobacteria, and it worked very well for him. I also have the dreaded BGA again and don't want to try antibiotics again so it's H202, I used 20 ml in my 10 gallon to spot treat a very severe case of BGA and it is working well plus the fish seem to love it. My question to you is, I was told 2.5 ml per gallon is the daily limit, but how many days in a row can I do this before any type of water change is needed?

So far I've done 2 days in a row and the fish seem happy and I'm planning to continue for several more days and then do a water change, so basically a weekly water change. Is this okay?

[150EH]

Well I was told at TPT the light degraded the H202 and produed water and oxygen but somehow I didn't believe it would be harmless to the fish and inverts. After added 25 ml per day to my 10 gallon, all the BGA seems to be gone and most of the BBA is dead, I used 25 ml per day for 7 days with no water change and the fish still seem to love it.

[krisw]

I'm glad that you got the dose right in your 10g. I can speak from experience that too high of a dose will kill your livestock. Scaleless fish like loaches, flounder, etc can be particularly sensitive to it in my experience. Usually, I don't dose it on consecutive days, and for larger dose, I usually add in a slime coat stimulator to try and help the fish. As you stated, in proper doses it can seem like a miracle cure!

[Aaron]

My understanding is that the erythromicin does not harm the beneficial bacteria in the tank if that is your concern. Make sure to get Marycin, and not Marycin II.

[150EH]

Yes, I am really happy with the results, even if it takes a few extra treatments. That would make sense with scaleless fish but I had no idea it might effect their slime coat. Most of the fish in that tank like highly oxygenated waters so when it starts bubbling they all come out to play like it's a park or something. I'm trying it on my 150 but it is much harder trying to spot dose without reaching a higher concentration in the whole tank, but I have more Peroxide on the way. I guess I was lucky not to have enough on hand for the 150 so I would only spot dose 180 ml out of the 375 ml needed, and a good thing because a Kuhli loach was swimming rapidly today so I guess I'll need to get something for their slime coats now, any recommendations?

[150EH]

My understanding is that the erythromicin does not harm the beneficial bacteria in the tank if that is your concern. Make sure to get Marycin, and not Marycin II.

I have tried Maracyn by Mardel twice but the bacteria keeps returning, so I wanted to try the H202 instead to see if it works better. My 150 had Cyano and I treated and it seemed to work, but I transplanted some Fissidens to my 10 gallon and now both tanks have had Cyano twice so I'm afraid of creating a antibiotic resistant strain of Cyano. I was thinking of completing the H202 treatments until there is no sign of the Cyano then cycling through 2 water changes and treating the tanks with Ethromyacin to make sure it is dead, it sounds crazy but I'm having that bad of a problem.

Now to answer your comment, it has never harmed the beneficial bacteria in the tank or filters when I have used it but I have lost a couple of fish that were most like already sick with some gram negative ailment.

[150EH]

A cautionary note:

I did find a dead Hara minuscula/Burmese Mini Moth Cat in the tank this morning and it could be that I used too much peroxide or I used it too many days in a row without a water change but I was cleaning and trimming this tank yesterday and I was raking my scissors through a thick stand of Eleocharis sp. 'GWAPA' to remove any trapped debris and one of these catfish came flying out of the area I was cleaning, they are so well camouflaged I didn't see it and I could have stabbed it with my scissors.

Never the less I am going to take your advise Kris and get a bottle of something that will promote a better slim coat as a pre-caution, plus I might for 3 days on and 3 days off to give the fish that need it a rest from the treatments. I would just be ssurpriseded if the peroxide kill it because they seemed to love it but then again they'll eat gH booster and dry ferts too.

[tug]

FWIW, H2O2 and potassium permanganate are both strong oxidizers. Potassium permanganate is harder to get now days but is used for fish pond maintenance even today. What I like about it is that the color changes as it oxidizes dissolved organic material. Observing the coloration tells you the effectiveness and required dosing, but black-outs, antibiotics and all the rest really ought only be done in conjunction with steps to get at the root cause. These steps may kill the cyanobacteria (they hate oxygen) but won't cure the systemic weakness, that caused the problem.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[150EH]

My ten gallon got it via transfer of some Fissidens, and my 150 got it from a delivery of Riccia, to the best of my knowledge. Some have stated it's due to a high build up of organics and lack of flow but the 10 gallon has only had water in it since September of 2012 and for flow the tank has a Ehiem 2215 with a 2217 impeller running without restriction, so it's like a whirlpool, the 150 is old but also has good flow.

I'm no scientist but I think it has more to due with my use of RO/DI water and CO2 working together to make super soft, acidic water. They both also got BBA very quickly and very it was very dense but the tanks had no kH, after asking about kH and shrimp most replies stated there was no need for any kH so I tried it. After some time I tried to raise the kH to 54 ppm via Seachem's Alkaline & Acid buffers but it was only a temporary kH, so I tested the tap water after our whole house softner to find it strips out all the gH and left the kH untouched at 143 ppm, so I now mix tap and RO in a 3.9 to 0.9 ratio to get a kH of 54 and enough gH booster to get a 143 or a little less. So far it has been working well and my pH in higher, the tanks have better C02, and most important the BBA is dying back even before the H202 treatments and both BBA and Cyano are not coming back as soon as the treatment stopped so I think I have it beat.

I did just receive a bottle of Prime and dosed both tanks, I would like to do some small spot treatments on the tanks but I may wait a week or so, the loss of a single fish has me worried about any more treatments with scaleless fish in both tanks.

I watched a YouTube video of a cleaning with potassium permanganate and I like the color change, plus it did a good job. Is it safer for scaleless fish? American Aquarium Products sells Jungle Clear Water which is pure Potassium Permanganate, if it's safer I would keep some on hand.

[tug]

Hi Tim,
Though I am not particularly bright or a chemist by any means, I have this far avoided killing or injuring anyone. I am not advocating Potassium permanganate (PP) as a treatment for cyanobacteria, I think as a tool for oxidizing (destroying) dissolved organic carbon, denying resources too and perhaps even some destruction of the cyanobacteria colonies it can be a useful tool. In your situation, it might be better to focus on CO2. I have seen BBA slowly disappear once I adjusted my lighting and improved my CO2 levels. Fluctuating or low levels of CO2 might also be why BGA keeps returning.

I'm not an expert on all the aspect of this stuff. I had one outbreak of BGA years ago. The treatment was 2mg/l KMnO4 and did not harm my RCS and people have reportedly used it without harming their CRS shrimp - I do not know about scaleless fish. An advantage PP’s (KMnO4) has over Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is that it is milder (not as strong an oxidizer), therefore less likely to harm critters and desirable primitive plants. (If Cl2 = 1.0 in relative oxidizing power, then PP = 1.24 and H2O2 = 1.31.)

Make sure the tank is well aerated, remove biological media and/or carbon filters or turn off the filter until the treatment is complete. Dissolve the PP into a liter of aquarium water, and then pour the solution along the length into the aquarium. Note the time or set an alarm for four hours. The aquarium water should turn a pleasant pink or even light purple.

Light purple means your water quality is excellent and you can even use a little less PP the next time. Pink is also an indicator of good water quality and that the dosing is correct. Yellowish tint through mud brown indicates poor water quality and the quicker and darker it got the worse the water quality.
If your aquarium got into the yellow to dark browns in less than four hours, add another 2mg/l dose. Continue the process until you make it four hours in the pink.

Should you notice any adverse reaction or just find yourself pooping uncontrollably, add whatever de-chlorinator you use at the proscribed rate. The same stuff you use to de-chlorinate the water will also neutralize PP.

I found the Potassium permanganate treatments at these levels safe for my critters.The Potassium permanganate (KMnO4) treatment is explained at http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa032

One pound of this stuff should last several lifetimes but at $16.00/lb I couldn't resist making my own Jungle Clear of known concentration.
http://shop.chemicalstore.com/navigatio ... =&id=PP100

PP calculator, http://www.cnykoi.com/calculators/calcpp.asp
The Potassium Permanganate Solution, http://forums.tfhmagazine.com/articles_pp_solution.php
MSDS, http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927406

For the record lemon juice, removes the stain from the skin.
Sodium bisulfite and Sodium thiosulfate worked best.
Soap and water have no effect.
Waiting 24 hours was pretty much as effective.

Blueberry stains are far tougher than PP stains (all-of-the-above are also effective against blueberry stains).

Edit: Some of the information and citations including the title are from posts by Biollante but mirror my experiences. I just like the way he says stuff.