What do you use to disinfect a tank?

[marge618]

"Back about 6 or 7 years ago we at the Suncoast Killifish Society used to enjoy the presence of a "fish veterinarian" named Dr. Roy Yanong. He talked about decontaminating properly aquariums that have had serious diseases. While bleach is good for some things, it won't decontaminate tanks that have contained fish with afflicted with a Mycobacterium. He said only alcohol will have any affect on helping these things "dissociate" and be removed from the tank in question. I hope this is accurate and that it helps. Please, someone contact me if I misheard what he said."
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The above is a quote from Killifish forum. Since I have been getting tanks from a number of sources I thought the topic relevant.

What do you use to disinfect a tank?

[ddavila06]

i usually use hot water or bleach, i didn't know that you could use alcohol though...interesting, thanks

[RTRJR]

I use Oxi-Clean, the original formulation only. You can't use the hottest water you have, but it has no lingering toxicity and degrades anything organic quite well, Rinses free easily.

Don't use on metal, so any metal components should be handled separately.

[PadreJP]

I did some research online and learned a lot. Mycobacteria seem to be a pretty interesting class of microorganisms. Apparently they are significantly more difficult to kill than most other bacteria due to a different formulation of their cell walls, which are highly resistant to attack.

Probably the best info I found about disinfection was this snippet from an article on petfish.net:

If you suspect your fish may have had TB and has died and you want to disinfect you may want to try these methods. Mycobacterium sp. are more difficult to kill than most bacteria because they have a very thick waxy outer coat. This waxy coat, plus the clumping that occurs in some strains, make them a bit tougher to penetrate with common disinfectants. 65-90% alcohol increases the likelihood of killing it, but, as with chlorine, organics will diminish this response. Recommended use of bleach for initial reduction in organics will kill off most other pathogens, including some of the weaker strains of myco. However, it is also recommend following up with a 65-90% soak/spray with alcohol (after neutralization of chlorine and drying). Increased contact time will increase likelihood of kill, so, if possible, try wiping down and/or soaking materials for 15-30 minutes, with alcohol.

Perhaps that may help some.

[marge618]

Thanks for the additional input. Looks like one needs to know the 'history' of a tank in order to know what needs to be done to clean it.

I think it would be interesting to run this by a veterinarian here in Maryland.

Later,
Marge

[PadreJP]

Thanks for the additional input. Looks like one needs to know the 'history' of a tank in order to know what needs to be done to clean it.

I think it would be interesting to run this by a veterinarian here in Maryland.

Well as I was doing my research online I saw a number of different antibiotic regimes for use against fish TB, including Kanamycin and Streptomycin. I know the former is easily enough obtainable in pet stores, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult to do a kanamycin treatment of an entire tank. The key would be to just do an incredibly thorough rinsing of the tank afterwards, since any leftover kanamycin would do a number on your biofilter when you were trying to set up & cycle the tank afterwards.

[kerokero]

Huh, I wouldn't really think to use antibiotics to "clean" a tank with, at least not one that isn't full of water - I always think of them as the effort to kill the little nasties without killing the larger organism I want (this is my understanding and may not be correct! I've not really heard of cleaning with them). I hate the idea of how much we use antibiotics in general and what it is doing to our environment. At least with chemicals I know I can likely neutralize them (bleach) or dilute them (alcohol) to the point of being mostly harmless (i.e. not killing/mutating stuff) unlike the antibiotics going out with the waste water.

I like the simplicity of the alcohol since it would just be another spray down and rinse off step. I don't know if you could do the same with the antibiotic as affectively? What kind of alcohol would you use, and where would you get it? They may not be referring to the liquor store... but could you imagine that scene? I need a jug of your strongest vodka pronto! i've got tanks to clean! Hah.

I've got some of the oddest spray bottles around my apartment... distilled water, blackwater, fertilizer, 10% bleach, vinegar, and then to add alcohol to the group... I need more colors in my spray bottles!

[PadreJP]

Corey,

You are completely correct; antibiotics could only be used if you filled the tank with water and treated that way; a spray bottle solution of an antibiotic would not be at all practical nor effective. I also agree with your statement about overuse of antibiotics; believe it or not, when I was a graduate student at Johns Hopkins this is exactly what I studied (antibiotics as a class of environmental pollutants, focusing especially on the nitrofuran-based antibiotics which are very commonly used as feed additives in cattle and other livestock, as well as being used in human medicine primarily for urinary tract infections and a few other specialized situations). This was back, gosh, 15 years ago, when the whole topic of bacteria developing antibiotic resistance via environmental exposure (rather than clinical exposure) was an area of research that was just in its infancy.

In general, I personally think it would be complete overkill to go with an antibiotic treatment of a tank, unless I knew for a fact that the previous tank occupants had been infected with TB. But that's just me.

As for alcohol, the thing that struck me is that the article didn't specify. In most disinfecting situations (IIRC) any of the short-chain alcohols perform pretty much the same. Store-bought rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) would probably be the easiest to obtain and easiest to work with, and would already be diluted to a proper alcohol/water ratio to maximize effectiveness. The other option would be to purchase pure ethanol (grain alcohol) and then dilute it oneself to about a 70% alcohol/30% water ratio which typically gives highest lethality rates against bacteria.

[kerokero]

Very cool research! I studied ecology in college (biogeography - same thing slightly different point of view ) and that really stuck with me in my pollutions studies. I never really thought about antibiotic pollution but I guess few people realize how much is actually getting tossed into our rivers. It's shocking especially since (to my understanding) low doses of antibiotics would just help bacteria build resistance where low doses of bleach or alcohol would likely just be metabolised into the system like other simple chemicals. Very scary thought (and one of the reasons I like "organic" - less antibiotics).

I'd be more interested in seeing what the alcohol would also take care of, but at least - like bleach - it could be easily applied to all nooks and crannies, as well as any decor and what not you wanted to keep. It's something that could be an easy "preventative" that wouldn't be a harmful overkill, at least in theory. It's much like the bleach useage.

If the antibiotics didn't kill off your biofilter completely, I'd be worried if it completely worked.

I was hoping the rubbing alcohol would work, and is usually the alcohol I've heard used for things like that. Most of the other stuff I could get is more expensive, requires being 21, requires some math to make sure the dilute is correct (math is the root of all evil!) and I'd prefer it going into my martinis and jellow shots

[Judi]

What kind of alcohol would you use, and where would you get it? They may not be referring to the liquor store... but could you imagine that scene? I need a jug of your strongest vodka pronto! i've got tanks to clean! Hah.

Not that this is of any help whatsoever, but you just reminded me of a tequila floor scrubbing party I once attended. Yes, the tequila was used to scrub the floor (worked quite well, too!) --I have no recollection of what we were drinking. Ah, those were the days. . .