ok need a bit of help, the 20L has ich. The black mollies I got for free are currently well spotted and the Salt +heat method seems to NOT be working.
What IS safe for a planted tank (moss, thin leaf Java Fern, anubias, a few random crypts which can be replaced if needed, Low grow Hygro, and 3 unidentified plants.)
Thanks in advance
ich in a planted tank
ich in a planted tank
The other Jeff
Master of growing algae and getting better at plants
Master of growing algae and getting better at plants
A 20-long generally has about 15 gallons +/-, so you are way shy of an effective dose.
I have my doubts about "aquarium salt" as it it is a totally undefined material. Table salt or kosher salt would be better, but it should not be a critical difference. At least do the doubling of the dosage.
Higher temps are safer and faster, but if this is planted well, it is going to be a bit harder on the plants with high salt and heat. I'd shoot for 82F and not over 84F. Watch the fish for symptoms of O2 distress even at that.
Add another 8 teaspoons after 12 more hours, total ~1 1/2 tsp/gal. Predisolve the salt for all future doses - pull out a large mug or a pint or so of water and stir the salt in well, pouring the salted water back into a filter output flow stream. You do want to avoid a concentrated brine layer around your plants or fish (likely where the Cory cat sensitivity myth came from).
Within 3 days after reaching 1- 1 1/2 tsp/gal., you should see no more spots appearing, even if older spots are not fully healed. Timer starts at that point and runs for 7-10 days. If you want to partial in that time, no problem, just replace salt removed with salt in the replacement water.
Post-treatment bring the temp down slowly and do another partial or two to start diluting the salt out. Ususally there is no adverse plant effect in my low-tech setups, but I have no high-tech experience there.
Good luck with it.
I have my doubts about "aquarium salt" as it it is a totally undefined material. Table salt or kosher salt would be better, but it should not be a critical difference. At least do the doubling of the dosage.
Higher temps are safer and faster, but if this is planted well, it is going to be a bit harder on the plants with high salt and heat. I'd shoot for 82F and not over 84F. Watch the fish for symptoms of O2 distress even at that.
Add another 8 teaspoons after 12 more hours, total ~1 1/2 tsp/gal. Predisolve the salt for all future doses - pull out a large mug or a pint or so of water and stir the salt in well, pouring the salted water back into a filter output flow stream. You do want to avoid a concentrated brine layer around your plants or fish (likely where the Cory cat sensitivity myth came from).
Within 3 days after reaching 1- 1 1/2 tsp/gal., you should see no more spots appearing, even if older spots are not fully healed. Timer starts at that point and runs for 7-10 days. If you want to partial in that time, no problem, just replace salt removed with salt in the replacement water.
Post-treatment bring the temp down slowly and do another partial or two to start diluting the salt out. Ususally there is no adverse plant effect in my low-tech setups, but I have no high-tech experience there.
Good luck with it.
Where's the fish? Neptune
No, we don't need the heat to disrupt the parasite itself if it is stressing the fish or melting the plants. We need heat to minimize the cycle time of the parasite principally while the salt does the job on the tomites (infectious free-swimming stage, the only one which can be attacked by meds/treatments other than heat). If we could always heat to parasite death and disruption temps (it is temperate more than tropical), we would not need the salt unless for a bit of osmotic support of heavily infested fish. Few hobbyists have the equipment (good refractometer and TDS meter) to be sure enough of salt levels to be very helpful there.
The peer-reviewed lit on that is not sharp, or was not a few years ago when I last tried to review it - the best result seemed to come from longer treatment than salt additions, which to me is too slow for hobby purposes. There is also a chance of sterilization of some fish species with >85F temps. Many of those were temperate or coldwater, not tropicals however. I don't know if tropicals would be hit as hard on that, likely not. For me, even with my generally warmish tanks, temps at or greater than 85F seem more damaging to the setup and stressful to the fish. The O2 solution curve is our enemy at those levels, especially when the parasites are already significantly impeding gill function.
Remember, Ich is preferentially a gill parasite, somatic lesions are overflow from gill crowding or simple chance from high tomite load in restricted volumes - totally alien to the wild situation. That is why sub-clinical infections are such a hassle and have supported so much mythology on hobby sites.
The peer-reviewed lit on that is not sharp, or was not a few years ago when I last tried to review it - the best result seemed to come from longer treatment than salt additions, which to me is too slow for hobby purposes. There is also a chance of sterilization of some fish species with >85F temps. Many of those were temperate or coldwater, not tropicals however. I don't know if tropicals would be hit as hard on that, likely not. For me, even with my generally warmish tanks, temps at or greater than 85F seem more damaging to the setup and stressful to the fish. The O2 solution curve is our enemy at those levels, especially when the parasites are already significantly impeding gill function.
Remember, Ich is preferentially a gill parasite, somatic lesions are overflow from gill crowding or simple chance from high tomite load in restricted volumes - totally alien to the wild situation. That is why sub-clinical infections are such a hassle and have supported so much mythology on hobby sites.
Where's the fish? Neptune
I give up, salt + heat is not cutting it (tank was at 86 before lights, 88 at 5pm) and the ich is still making its rounds.
Just went over to TFW and picked up quick cure to eliminate the ich.
The only thing the heat and salt seemed to be affecting was the plants (even the anubias was looking humble) so tonight I will start quick cure and see if that will eliminate it fast enough to hopefully save some of the plants (mostly the amount of moss in the tank and the anubias).
Just went over to TFW and picked up quick cure to eliminate the ich.
The only thing the heat and salt seemed to be affecting was the plants (even the anubias was looking humble) so tonight I will start quick cure and see if that will eliminate it fast enough to hopefully save some of the plants (mostly the amount of moss in the tank and the anubias).
The other Jeff
Master of growing algae and getting better at plants
Master of growing algae and getting better at plants
If the tank has no fish and is at tropical temps (75F and above), in 10 days the parasites will be gone for lack of a host. No other attention or treatment is required. There is no dormant phase for this parasite. It infects fish or dies. When the free-swimming tomites hatch, they must find a host shortly or the starve - end of the line.
Where's the fish? Neptune
Note that the heat doesn't kill the ich, it moreso accelerates it's lifecycle and prevents it from reproducing. Ich can last for weeks or months on it's own, the heat accerlates it's lifecycle to something like 12 days. You're going to see it get worse before it gets better, typically, when using heat.
