Amano sands and aqua soils

[Balthamos]

I've been looking at all the substrates that I can find information on and have read several articles on Amano's aquarium artisanship. I'm just looking for some opinions here. Are his sands and soils worth the price? I took a look to see what it would cost to supply a 30 G tank--2-6 L bags of Power Sand Special ($50.00), 3-9 L bags of Malaya normal type soil ($34.00 each), and 1-9 L bag of Malaya powder type for a top layer ($34.00 each) for a grand total of $236 to equip my tank. Seems excessively high to me, but what do you think?

Also, what do you think of the Red Sea Flora Base (about $30 a bag, $90 to equip my tank) substrate? Any good or is something else better? If you choose something else then would you explain why? How does one decide which is the best substrate?

[Ltrepeter2000]

I wont say that the sands and soils arent worth it but I dont know of many of us that actually use them on a regular basis. Sean's soil substrate method seems to be catching hold here as its a great deal cheaper and very effective at growing plants.

This is your tank so if those are what will make it look the way you want then you might want to do it. If you are not as concerned about what the substrate will look like then there are many different options for substrates. I have used primarily fluorite but am quickly getting tired of it as the red in it is harder to deal with than some of the darker substrates.

Thanks
Rob

[krisw]

I took a look to see what it would cost to supply a 30 G tank--2-6 L bags of Power Sand Special ($50.00), 3-9 L bags of Malaya normal type soil ($34.00 each), and 1-9 L bag of Malaya powder type for a top layer ($34.00 each) for a grand total of $236 to equip my tank. Seems excessively high to me, but what do you think?

It seems to me that you have over-estimated the amount of bags you would need for a 30G tank. Also, you don't neccessarily need to use the full Amano-recommended line to get great benefits. Infact, many people, prefer using the aquasoil without the power sand underneath because the powersand often finds it's way to the top of the substrate, looking very unsightly. I've heard that some people use power sand underneath a stainless steal screen to prevent this. I will try this on my next ADA tank. Anyways, from personal experience with the Amazonia aquasoil, I can say that it's better than any other substrate I've tried, without question. I guess it's like any "luxory" item, once you drive the ferrari, you're going to look at the corolla a little bit differently. Of course, both get you from A to B, but your experience along the way is going to be different.

One thing to note, is that a 9L bag of aquasoil is roughly equivalent to 1 bag of flourite in volume. So, when comparing pricing, if you can get Flourite for $20 a bag, the equivalent volume would actually cost you around $30 -- not too much different than aquasoil. Also, if you are interested in aquasoil, I wouldn't buy it right now on your own. The board is currently talking about putting together a group order on ADA product, which would definitely help you save on shipping, but may also include a bulk discount on product if we can negotiate that. Just something to consider.

The long and short, I think you could setup your 30G with 2-3 bags of just the aquasoil for $34x3 = $102, which I would personally prefer over florabase.

For some history, I have aquasoil in a 40G breeder, and 20 high. These are the two tanks I put any plants in that I want to propagate quickly because I rarely have severe algae problems, and get excellent growth. I've had tanks with flourite, eco-complete, and now have many with soilmaster select. For cost reasons, I've started using soilmaster select in many of my tanks because through experience, I'm more comfortable with dosing, and balancing everything out. ADA's line is the best there is to not have to worry about a lot of that stuff, letting you worry more about scaping your tanks, verses simply growing plants.

[Aaron]

The long and short, I think you could setup your 30G with 2-3 bags of just the aquasoil for $34x3 = $102, which I would personally prefer over florabase.

That's what I would recommend going with as well if you decide to use Aquasoil. Having used it in 3 tanks now I'm not a big fan of the powersand for the reasons Kris described. That being said it is good stuff and I do like it better than FloraBase.

It's arguably the best planted tank substrate on the market.

[Balthamos]

I'll definitely participate in a group order of Amano's aqua soils if it becomes available. If anybody thinks about it, then please let me know if the offer is made. I might miss it on the forum and might not be at the meeting when it's announced.

[Balthamos]

I checked with Jeff Senske, the US distributor for Amano. He explained that the Power Sand should not find its way to the top of the soil unless we're vacuuming our substrate or uprooting plants, or unless we have fish that are diggers. He also said that the aqua soil is not intended to be used without the sand for reasons I only partly understood (partly because of how polutants build at the bottom layer of the soil when it's used without the sand). He also strongly advised against using any type of barrier between the sand and the soil. In addition he told me that the sand/soil combination should last 4-5 years (or longer) without the need to replace. He said that other substrates will need to be replaced more frequently, perhaps every year or two. Okay, now that's a fair report of what the distributor told me, without any commentary. Since I'm an absolute novice with this I don't know which way I should go. Anyone want to comment on Mr. Senske's information?

Mark

[Ltrepeter2000]

Ok Thats nice that Jeff said that but those unless's at the top include quite a bit of activity around a tank. That means if you have cichlids, cories, etc. that they could bring the sand up. If you decide that you do not like the look of a plant after its in and decide to take it out that could bring the sand up(I know I have ripped plants out of all of my tanks at one point or another. If you had Jeff's planting skills I would say you would be fine since its once and done and picture pretty with him just about but guessing that you are like many of us that will not get it perfect the first time I recommend that you take Kris/Aaron's advice above. I have not heard of anyone having significant problems with pollutants that have built up at the bottom layer of soil.

Two Cents
Rob

[Aaron]

That's exactly the problem as Rob stated, it's fine if you don't uproot plants, but not many people do that. I'm constantly changing things around in my tanks so for me it's better to just use the Aquasoil. You'll still see a tremendous benefit without the Powersand.

Do be careful adding fish to the tank when it is first setup with Aquasoil. The Aquasoil brings the pH way down (mine got in the 5's).

[Jeff120]

I agree with the above you are going to want to move stuff, esp. being you first tank. And whats up with the OTHER substrates needing replaced? I dont thing that is true at all. I suggest you just sit tight and see if we put together an order and decide then, if I switch over to AS Im going with just the soil and no PS

[Ghazanfar Ghori]

Keep in mind - you only need 1/4" layer of powersand underneath. Most folks
overdo the powersand and don't put enough Aquasoil on top. Uprooting plants
constantly will cause some powersand to come up but for the most part it should
stay below. That said - you shouldn't have to uproot plants too much. With stems,
the best way is to just top the plant and leave the old stems in the substrate. They
come back with 5 times as many stems and you get that lush look.

Aquasoil is worth it - even if it was twice the price. That stuff performs. If you've
ever used it - you know what I'm talking about. Its unbelievable really.
I don't think I'd ever use any other substrate.