Dosing traces in MTS tanks

[andreyka]

Dosing micros with a soil substrate won't hurt anything. You could use all three, Trace, Comprehensive and Envy alternately if you think none of them are complete enough. They are MICROS, you only need a little and you get a lot replenished just from water changes unless you are using RO/DI water.

The question here is do I need to dose them (as in 'from the bottle')? As you agree, there is plenty of traces in our tap water (which I use for regular water changes). Anyway, if it won't hurt anything, I might start adding some Comprehensive (as it seems to be the poison of choice for most).

Julie, why do you prefer Pfertz? Is there anything in particular you like about them? Is it low copper content? The line might not be available anymore soon, everything is on 50% sale now: http://www.pfertz.com/

[andreyka]

The reason I'm fretting about the micros is that Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' that I got from Viktor at the last meeting isn't doing so good:

L_Cuba_sm.jpg (149.02 KiB) Viewed 4784 times

Water parameters (as of today):
Nitrates: 15 ppm
Phosphates: 1.5-2 ppm (both by LaMotte kit)
kH: 6
gH: 9

CO2: controlled via pH controller set for target pH 6.6. Injection is turned off during night, and pH climbs up to 7.4 by morning.

Two weeks ago added 10 ppm potassium and 2 ppm magnesium (had signs of deficiencies); a week ago started autodosing macros at:
K: 1.4 ppm
NO3: 1.0 ppm
Mg: 0.1 ppm
Fe: 0.02 ppm
Excel: 5 ml

I've chosen not to dose phosphate as it tends to stay above 1.5 ppm on it's own. I'm told it's very unusual, but seems to be the case. My test kit appears to be accurate. Here you can see color of control 1 ppm solution on the left and tank water on the right:

phosphates_sm.jpg (71.47 KiB) Viewed 4784 times

My tap water contains 10 ppm nitrates and 1 ppm phosphates. I do 30% water changes every other week.

All other plants seem to be doing fine. I finally managed to get L. palustris going (after starting regular iron supplementation):

L_palustris_sm.jpg (215.65 KiB) Viewed 4784 times

Rotala macrandra that I got at the same time as the poor Ludvigia Cuba doesn't look too bad either:

Rotala_sm.jpg (136.78 KiB) Viewed 4784 times

So, the next suspect in line in terms of nutrients is traces. Hence all the questions... If anybody has other ideas, please, chime in.

Cheers,
Andrey

[SCMurphy]

Do you use RO water and add N and P as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate? You may have stripped out enough Ca and added enough K to overdosed K, which looks a lot like Ca overdosing. New growth is stunted and twisted.

[jweis]

Julie, why do you prefer Pfertz? Is there anything in particular you like about them? Is it low copper content? The line might not be available anymore soon, everything is on 50% sale now: http://www.pfertz.com/

When I was picking which fert to use this one got good reviews on a few forums. I also liked the pump bottles that make dosing very easy.

They've been running that sale for a while now. I think they might be getting new packaging and they want to sell out what they have.

So far it has worked well for me both with RO water and well water.

[andreyka]

Do you use RO water and add N and P as potassium nitrate and potassium phosphate? You may have stripped out enough Ca and added enough K to overdosed K, which looks a lot like Ca overdosing. New growth is stunted and twisted.

I do not use RO water. Tap with kH 5 and gH 7. Also, why new growth on other plants is neither stunted or twisted?

[andreyka]

When I was picking which fert to use this one got good reviews on a few forums. I also liked the pump bottles that make dosing very easy...

Thank you, Julie.

...They've been running that sale for a while now. I think they might be getting new packaging and they want to sell out what they have...

Got it. Can't believe it's just another sales trick with what they say on their web site...

[SCMurphy]

Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' is unusually susceptible to this problem, never mind that you just got the plant and it hasn't established itself fully yet. It will grow better if it gets some roots into the soil.

[jweis]

When I was picking which fert to use this one got good reviews on a few forums. I also liked the pump bottles that make dosing very easy...

Thank you, Julie.

...They've been running that sale for a while now. I think they might be getting new packaging and they want to sell out what they have...

Got it. Can't believe it's just another sales trick with what they say on their web site...

Gosh, I just went to their website. First time I visited since Dec. The owner has cancer and is shutting down. Almost everything is out of stock. Very sad news. I liked their products a lot.

[andreyka]

Ludwigia inclinata var. verticillata 'Cuba' is unusually susceptible to this problem...

Sean, do you mean potassium overdose?

...It will grow better if it gets some roots into the soil.

I have no doubt about that. Once a plant is rooted in this tank - it's golden . The problem is that I do not see any roots coming out after 3 weeks, and the plant is about to die, I'm afraid.

Here is a link to several more shots of other plants in my tank: http://www.gwapa.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 299#p50299
Are there similar signs in any of them?

[andreyka]

I'm starting to wonder which of the verticillatas this plant is (quote is from TFH magazine):

"L. inclinata “verticillata” var. “Cuba” is a large, showy stem that grows more erect than L. inclinata, and with very different submerged growth characteristics. Its leaves are long, narrow, and very colorful—transitioning from green at the base to orange/yellow with deep red on the crown. “Cuba” is very vigorous and, if its needs are met, will grow large quite fast.

L. inclinata “verticillata” var. “Pantanal” is another variety that is similar in growth appearance to “Cuba” but with narrower and thinner leaves. The coloration on “Pantanal” is its biggest appeal, with deep-pink leaves that become a reddish color on the crowns. “Pantanal” is a smaller and less vigorous variety than “Cuba” and is more sensitive to changes in water parameters.

L. inclinata “verticillata” var. “Araguaia” is similar in size and requirements to “Pantanal” but has coloration more similar to “Cuba,” with yellowish lower leaves to orange and red crowns. It is found in the aquarium hobby less often."

Victor only said that it's L. inclinata var. verticillata. In Viktor's tank the plant is orange-red.

Anyway, Kasselmann reports that in all three locations where water parameters of L. inclinata habitat were measured, both kH and gH were <1. Could it be that my moderately-hard water is the culprit? Viktor has the same water, I believe, though... And majority of articles on L. inclinata var. verticillata do mention (besides requirements for soft water and fertile substrate) that the plant needs supplementation of trace elements to water column.