Stunted/small leaves...CO2 too low?

[sns26]

I've had this problem before with some plants. A couple of the varieties of stems I got at the last meeting are growing out with small, stunted leaves. Other forums say low CO2, but the drop checkers are green...I dose nutrients, and there's pearling and growth in other plants. What am I missing?

[Aaron]

What's your dosing look like?

[sns26]

What's your dosing look like?

Yeah, probably should have posted that too.

57 gallon tank. High light, CO2, heavily planted. Mature tank (>2 years on the same aquasoil). Peristaltic pumps deliver each day:

3.3 g KNO3 (15.5 mg/liter)
0.8 g KH2PO4 (4 mg/liter)
4.2 ml Flourish
1.2 ml Seachem Iron

Those numbers started out from some EI recipe I found, but then evolved over time (upwards). I still do a 50% water change every week. A few months ago I tested nitrates at the end of a week and found almost none...so I jacked the macros up more. (Same ratio, though.)
I used to measure my nitrates and phosphates. Then I stopped because everything seemed to be going fine...but you know, I always had some plants that would do this.

[Aaron]

That's a heck of a lot of macros and not so much micros. 15 ppm nitrate per day! ?

[Cristy Keister]

how's the kh?

[tug]

This is a tuff one.
One possible solution I've only read about, is using extra K+ to balance high SO4/Cl/NO3 in the vacuole, but if you add water with high Cl, and KNO3 etc, then there's typically plenty of ions available, but plants do like K+ for the anion balance.

From the 2013 DC drinking water quality report, Alkalinity (KH?), ranges between 45 and 95ppm. Calcium levels range from 23 to 50ppm. Magnesium levels, 1 to 11ppm (I am adding some Epsom salts for a little more Mg). FWIW, some other stuff in the DC tap; Chloride, at 15 to 51ppm; Copper, at 0.005 to 0.012ppm; and Orthophosphate, at 1.7 to 3ppm, etc… http://www.dcwater.com/news/publication ... t_2013.pdf

I like Flourish, it could be dosed at 10mL/day and the Seachem Iron dose, 5mL/day for EI.
Under dosing flourish is understandable but Seachem Iron or a diy Fe Gluconate solution, no.

[tug]

Oh snap!

That's a heck of a lot of macros and not so much micros. 15 ppm nitrate per day! ?

Hi all,For macros, I mix 80g KNO3, 20g KH2PO4 into a liter of water and dose 15ml per day. . .
http://www.gwapa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5743

Oops.

Not bad for a daily dose of NO3 and K+. You should be able to bump it higher
w/out raising the dose of PO4. DC tap likely adds a 2 day supply with each water change.

The PO4 dose must go hand in hand w/all the CO2 you've been adding.
That more available CO2 anyway, not my hot breath. You must have a lot of healthy, happy plants.

CO2 too low? It's hard to say it's not.
What to consider with CO2 - light, water flow, availability, etc.
I'm still trying to get it right. Smarter design would help me. It seems I'm learning.
It isn't as easy as I would like.

[sns26]

That's a heck of a lot of macros and not so much micros. 15 ppm nitrate per day! ?

Wow, really? So between you and Tug I'm tempted to double the Flourish and iron dosing to see what happens.

[Aaron]

That's a heck of a lot of macros and not so much micros. 15 ppm nitrate per day! ?

Wow, really? So between you and Tug I'm tempted to double the Flourish and iron dosing to see what happens.

Yeah, I would double your micros.

[SCMurphy]

OR the plants are growing so fast that they don't need, or get to grow leaves with the maximum surface area. Are the plants growing tall faster than other plants? The internodes do not look stretched and gangly, it just could be the size of the leaf the plant requires in your particular aquarium. Aquatic plants are very plastic in their growth depending on the environment. Trim them and get them to bush out. Keep them shorter and see if the leaves grow larger to grab more light near the bottom of the aquarium. You have really great lighting over that tank. A plant won't put energy into growing a large leaf if it doesn't need it and near the top of your tank the plants may beg you to dose SPF 50. (joke) Also, follow the advice to double the micros, that is one of the least likely groups of nutrients to contribute to an algae bloom, so it won't hurt.