"Hard to grow" plants

[ingg]

Yes, you are being picky.

You guys are talking about an absolutely immense amount of information and seem to want it categorized for every single growing instance.

That just isn't realistic.

There is no one way to do things, and there is no bulletproof high light tank of success method. Even for many of the difficult plants, you will find them in multple circumstances and multiple growing patterns.

You experiment, you tweak, and you find what works for you. Set your tank, set your parameters, and experiment with it.

If that sounds like a brush-off, please know it isn'tt - it is just that you are asking is sort of an equivalent of comprehensive Cliff notes of Gone with the Wind.... except in this case, Gone with the Wind would have to be re-written multiple times with multiple endings to compare to how many tank types and methods of care there are. Those kind of Cliff notes don't exist - and they couldn't.

I do understand the eagerness, and understand the frustration. There just isn't a short cut (short of low light bullet proof setups).

It took me a lot of reading, a lot of asking questions in person and online of tons of sources, a lot of research - to get to what I consider an intermediate (at best!) understanding of a lot of this stuff. And I mean a LOT of time spent - I don't watch much TV, I read. Over a few years now, I'm starting to get it... some of it.

For instance, I did go through plant databases - yes, one plant by one. I did sort APC and plantgeek plant lists. Repeatedly. I know an awful lot of the plants off the top of my head now.

I do know the basics and differences of EI and PPS. I don't use them, as I found another method that works better for me and I stick with it. Others have the time and patience to work it into a viable working solution - it just didn't fit for me.

I do know plants that work and don't work for me, because I experimented with them. Buy them, try them, and yes, often kill them. And this is an ongoing and seemingly never ending experiment.


Some starting points:

There are articles right here on the GWAPA site on dealing with algaes. There are also several good online resources, just google aquarium algae.

On GWAPA are several sources of NPK ratio and mineralized soil and CO2 level threads. These can also be found on sites like plantedtank and aquaticplantcentral.

APC has some very good guides on fertilization routines. Google EI fertilization, PPS fertilization methods, they'll show up.

Those three should give you reading material for oh, over a year...

[ingg]

BTW, one of the reasons your search doesn't exist is that it doesn't prove true in many cases.

Example: There are some soft water plants (Toninas specifically) that folks in Houston grow, and they have liquid concrete for water. If you go by guides, you'd say it would be impossible.

Example: Rotala Mini type 2 is said to have certain needs - I've seen it in at least three different growth forms in three very different style tanks, only one of which matches the "it needs" tank paramaters that someone listed.

In short - this is why you have to experiment, and find what works and what doesn't for you specifically.

[dSerk]

So you're trying to determine what is baseline in your tank so when you see problems you can tell if they might be related to swings in something?

I just need to do things consistently for a while, then I can try to react to different things going on in the tank. Learning a lot of "little things", too, like Hygros need extra potassium... my hygros have little pinhole dead spots on some leaves... pinhole dead spots are a sign of K deficiency... add some extra K when I fertilize. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong or oversimplifying.)

You could always trim off the leaf tips to keep the java from producing the plantlets for a while. I have some other plants that develop plantlets in stress, and after trying to fix the problem I generally cut off the planlets to try and get the plant to focus on it's own growth (especially blooming, but with such a slow grower babies must be hard on it), rather than that of babies. I'm guessing it would be similar for the ferns.

I had been cutting off the java fern's tips, but while pruning this weekend I found that some of them will pull right off! I guess those are the "ripe" ones. Not having luck pulling out the cladophlora.

Anyway, if I take out the java ferns (and the weedy ceratopteris behind them) I have room to add something not represented elsewhere in the tank. I could add some of those plants with feathery, bushy leaves, some of which are red and often described as "difficult" to grow. It would add a texture not already present in the tank. And if the lighting requirements are mostly what make those bushy, feathery, reds difficult to grow then I'm set. The java ferns i believe are suffering from being in a well-lit area.

Right around that spot I'd like to also add something with big, bold leaves. I like Anubias lanceolata from the ones I've seen in the LFS and internet. But again, low-growth plant in a well-lit area.... is that just another algae disaster?

Are Anubias' generally "easy" or "difficult?"

[ingg]

Anubias are bullet proof, easy plants. Easy to the point that you can put them in a selaed container in a closet for months, and have them live through it.

Lanceolata is one of my favorite Anubias. Yes, it is another slow grower, and it just as algae prone as other Anubias. I bought it from an importer, showed up emersed as is typical - it does take longer to transition than others.

Yup, perfectly right, pinholes are a good sign of K deficiency!




Cladophora takes a lot of stick-to-it-iveness. Brutal stuff, I hate it. For things like java fern and anubias, try this: Take the plant out of the tank, spritz it with Excel in a spray bottle, and put it right back into the tank. Don't do this to things like Rotalas, but for the rhizome plants that can take a whipping and keep on ticking, this does seem to work pretty well.

[dSerk]

There is no one way to do things, and there is no bulletproof high light tank of success method. Even for many of the difficult plants, you will find them in multple circumstances and multiple growing patterns.

And multiple genetics, strains and individuals. This is going to be my "brush off" when things don't work according to plan

and they have liquid concrete for water.

Isn't it called "cement" in that state?

What are the odds someone will bring some rotala or myriophyllum or cabomba (or something similar) to the meeting Saturday? I guess I just need to try them and see what happens.

[ingg]

I can trim Rotala Macrandra and probably Rotala Pink for the meeting.

Rotala Pink is a very easy one to grow. Co2 or not, high or moderate light, it'll grow - just color differently in the different parameters, showing more color under higher light.

Macrandra is a very light demanding species. Brilliant red, but very easy to melt if it doesn't get enough light. This one typically either does well, or melts away.

[chris_todd]

Corey, as Dave said, such a database would not only be difficult to build, but it would be deceptive. Plants are pretty adaptable, so even if in nature a given plant grows in relatively soft, acidic water, it might be able to adapt to moderately hard, alkaline water. So to say a plant "requires" any given set of parameters is deceptive; different plants have different degrees of adaptability - some will die unless you provide exactly the requirements they have, others are weeds that you cannot kill no matter how hard you try. How do you code that in a database? (This is a rhetorical question; I work with databases for a living, and I know there are ways, but they're mostly a PITA)

But some plants are really adaptable, and are often sold in "hard to kill" plant packages. For example, java fern, watersprite, java moss, anubias, vallisneria, many swords, and others, are so adaptable you could say all they really need is water and a little light. What will grow in your tanks, with your tap water, and your substrate and dosing regimen? In short, you won't know until you try, and that's a big part of what is fun in this hobby! And given the wide range of plants available through this club, you'll have no shortage of plants you can try.

I have found the APC plant finder a great place to start, and a truly indispensable resource. I had no idea Cavan was the maintainer - Thanks, Cavan! There are also numerous good books, like the Encyclopedia of Aquatic Plants by Peter Hiscock, that give good overviews of many plant species. And of course, Google knows all.

And as for algae - learn to love it! I doubt there's a single person in this club that doesn't have excessive algae in at least one of their tanks.

[dSerk]

Cladophora takes a lot of stick-to-it-iveness. Brutal stuff, I hate it. For things like java fern and anubias, try this: Take the plant out of the tank, spritz it with Excel in a spray bottle, and put it right back into the tank. Don't do this to things like Rotalas, but for the rhizome plants that can take a whipping and keep on ticking, this does seem to work pretty well.

Rotalas don't like Excel? The only plant for which I'd heard Excel was proscribed was Anacharis, but even then, I'd been dosing my tanks daily with it for a while (and overdosing) and haven't seen those guys having trouble.

(So, back to the theme of this thread as it seems) This doesn't mean anything, these are just my experiences.

Thanks, dave.

[chris_todd]

Take the plant out of the tank, spritz it with Excel in a spray bottle, and put it right back into the tank. Don't do this to things like Rotalas, but for the rhizome plants that can take a whipping and keep on ticking, this does seem to work pretty well.

I tried something similar, using an H2O2 dip instead, and it certainly killed the algae. But I learned that you should not dip the rhizome! (see my signature) It nearly killed the plant; it's still recovering slowly two months later.

[ingg]

Direct aerial spraying of Excel is hard on plants, it is why it kills the algaes. If you let anubias soak like that a few minutes, it'll even melt them... don't ask how I know, sad story!

So I'd not do it to finer leaved plants.

Tank dosing is totally different, only melts anacharis and vals.